Category: Generously shared stories by others

Familiarity breeds confidence

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Photo by Oscar Keys on Unsplash
Words by me (Fiona) based on an interview with Sam

Sam followed his passion right out of his comfort zone.

The benefit – getting into the NIDA Actors Studio, a 12-month professional acting program – was worth it. But first there was an audition!

“I’ve never auditioned for anything before. So, that was really out of my comfort zone. The whole row of people waiting to be auditioned in a small studio by two professional industry people, one director and one actress. I had to do two monologues.

“I felt really nervous. I thought ‘What am I doing?’ Like, what the hell am I doing? I don’t belong here. I should get out of here. I want to run out the doors. But I think what stops me from doing that is the fact that I did the preparation. And I’m sure in my head of what I’m going to do when they call my name. I think that’s the key. I think if you want to do something that’s outside your comfort zone, you don’t just go and do it. You actually have to prepare for it, you prepare for it and you prepare well. So when you come to do it, you can execute with precision and with all of the preparation that you have done whilst also being prepared to respond in the moment.”

Sam steps out of his comfort zone regularly in order to follow his passions. He is doing more public speaking. He did a play in December, completed a voiceover for a short documentary about loneliness and recently finished shooting a short film, soon to be playing at film festivals throughout Australia. Acting he particularly enjoys as a way of learning about human behaviour “You learn new things about yourself. And you learn new things about other people as well. From an acting perspective, you learn a lot about human behaviour. Because when you’re getting into a role you begin to learn about that character, what the character will do and think, how he responds to different situations, what’s at stake if he doesn’t get what he wants, and you just want to portray that character truthfully within the given circumstances of the text. So when you do that, you have to do a lot of research into human behaviour types, and all kinds of other things. And that just helps you understand not only yourself, but other people.”

Sam also found another benefit of stepping out of his comfort zone – he found himself with a different group of people and made lifelong friends, people he would not have met if he had not taken that step.

Sam had this advice for people thinking about stepping out of their comfort zone “Familiarity breeds confidence. So if there’s something you want to do, just get into it, start reading about it, start arming yourself with knowledge, become familiar with the process and how it works. And I think the more you do that, the more it reinforces your drive to do it. And that’s a virtuous circle, I think you might call it. And I think that’s the key you don’t just go into something blind. When you see great performances on the stage or on the screen, or when you see great talks at meetups, when you see great meetings, planning days and stuff executed, people don’t just rock up and do it. There’s a tonne of preparation that goes into these things. So it’s all about familiarising yourself with what needs to be done and having fun and discovering new things in the process.”

“And also I think having an understanding that even if you fail, whatever that definition is for you. well, actually, you’ve learned something right? And you keep iterating and you go in again and you do it, you go in again, you do it.”

And Sam’s final words were a pretty awesome summary of his approach to stepping outside of your comfort zone: “Get a parachute. Make sure you know how to use it. And then jump.”

Equine assisted Learning!

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Karen & Duke

So why would a person who was terrified of horses agree to partake in a session of equine assisted learning? 

“Really to understand what she did. And I’ve seen some posts on LinkedIn from a couple of other people I know who’d been up to Kinglake, and came back. And the stuff that surfaced, just in terms of your communication style, and your leadership style made me want to do it.” 

So what did it involve? 

“Karen Ostenried runs a program of equine assisted learning. She uses horses for team building, leadership programs, and all sorts of awesome stuff and she invited me and my partner up to see what she does. 

“As a child, I had a very unfortunate experience with a horse. And I’ve got this fear of horses.  

“Even before we went up there Karen said I could stay outside the arena, I didn’t need to go in – everybody has their comfort zone. So, on that basis, I said, Okay, let’s go.  

So up we went to King Lake. And we did stand outside the arena.  

“We had a bit of prep first and we stood outside the arena. And Karen introduced us to Duke who’s pretty tall. So she introduced us from afar and I watched, and then she told me and showed us what we’re going to be doing and just really eased us into a sense of a feeling of comfort, if you like. 

“then we went into then we went into the arena and she gave us some brushes. With a bit of a trepidation I to started to brush Duke, who was quite happy! So it was nothing to fear really. Then she taught us how to recognize the body language of the horse. Duke had become part of our team.  We had to take Duke with us to overcome problems and challenges. It was all like these obstacle courses set up on the in the arena that we had to take Duke through with us as a team.  

“It was a big step up by set aside my comfort zone for me, but I think I was able to do it. I was very surprised by how far I got! 

 “I was amazed at the end of it, but I think I was able to do it because it was done in baby steps. It wasn’t a big jump. If Karen had opened the door to that arena and said, right, come on in and grab hold of Duke I don’t think I would have moved. I was able to succeed because there was coaching and support throughout to get to the point.” 

One of the lessons Karen took out was that when leading Duke, if she looked back she confused him! She had to keep looking and moving forward to have him follow her. It was about setting clear direction for your team. 

At this point I must be honest, I am keen to see how I can participate in Equine Assisted learning! 

But I stayed focused and asked Karen about what drives her to step out of her comfort zone. “I think it helps you grow as a person. And I think if we never step out of our comfort zone, nothing will ever change. It’s just inertia. So I’m very much all about that growth mindset. You know about development, learning and growing. And there’s never a point at which you can’t be better at something or you can’t improve the way you lead or coach or whatever it might be or you can improve your communication skills. So I think it’s all about that learning and getting better. And when you are better at something and more comfortable with it, that’s when your comfort zone is growing. And I think it just enables you to do more and more.” 

Thank you, Karen, for sharing your amazing experience! 

The link to the EAL experience is: https://the-matanya-effect.com.au/ 

Driven by a great idea!

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Photo by Ameen Fahmy on Unsplash
Words by Fiona based on an interview with Kirby

What do you do when you have a great idea, driven by a need you have, but making that concept a reality means stepping outside your comfort zone?

In Kirby’s case you do your research and go for it!

Boxi came from a real need, “my son has allergies to three different food groups. And I had a challenge as soon as he started to eat solid food, I’d have to take food absolutely everywhere he went, he couldn’t have anything that was packaged. I was taking lots of food in little tiny containers in a bag, but I’d lose the lids or I’d have mismatched lids. And then I found a really cute little bento style lunch box which I loved but I would have to put it in another bag with an icepack and it was a bag external to the bag that I’d have to take everywhere.

“Anyway, that’s what I started thinking about. Maybe I should make a lunch box because I couldn’t actually find one at the time. That was a bento style lunch box where I could compartmentalise the food and keep it cool at the same time. And that’s how it all started really.”

Everything but the marketing was out of Kirby’s comfort zone! She has a degree in communications, but started by Googling ‘how to make a product’ and going from there!

One of the hardest things for Kirby was asking for advice. But once she reached out she found that people were willing to share their own knowledge and experiences. She reached out to someone who she knew had run a successful kickstarter campaign, and also a person who had won a design award. Kirby had been worried they would ignore her or even say no, but instead found amazing help and support!

And yes, Kirby is now helping people who have reached out to her for advice!

Kirby did have setbacks – including a significant investor falling through just as she was about to get started. But she just knew she had a great product. “I got my first prototype sorted before I launched it to the public. And I showed it to a lot of people and I got my friends to take my prototype and show their friends so it was unbiased feedback. And I think the fact that I knew that this product was good and there was nothing like it on the market. That is one thing that has driven me plus, by the time I had that first prototype, which was this time last year, I really felt like I can’t turn back now!”

Kirby is comfortable with change, but is not a big risk taker. So her advice to others considering a similar move is to research! She is happy to take calculated risks, where the pay off is worth it. And is more willing now to do things (like talk to me!) that she would never had agreed to in the past. She still fights a fear of failure, but was given some great advice to “take longer to make a decision on the big decisions”. She realised that it is ok to take a week to get back to someone if she needs that time to be confident in her answer.

In Kirby’s words: “Do it. And don’t wait too long either. I feel like I sat on this idea for too long before I took any action because I was too scared of failing.

“Do your research. Reach out to people who are a year or two years ahead of you in their journey and just learn from their mistakes or learn from their experience so that you can build a relationship with them.

“So I just say go for it. Don’t wait too long. Get the right advice from the professionals, lawyers, engineers, whoever it is that you need. Do your research, use Google! And just go for it. I mean, really, at the end of the day, if this does fail, which is not going to, but if it does, I gave it a go.”

Great advice, and thank you Kirby for giving it a go!

Find out more about Boxi at https://www.boxi.com.au/pages/about-us

Learn to Love the Resistance

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Photo by sippakorn yamkasikorn on Unsplash
Words by me (Fiona) based on an interview with Lyssa

“I’m interested in doing this because, I guess a couple reasons. Number one, I’m interested in supporting women in particular in their pursuits in the world, and them having a unique voice and having their unique voice be heard. And the other thing is that I’m always interested in discovering more about myself and I find when I do interviews like this I find myself saying things I didn’t know I was going to say. And then that’s a whole other level of reflection for me to take on board.” – Lyssa Adkins 

Confession time – when Lyssa agreed to be interviewed for this blog there may have been a mini celebration in the office. We are all huge fans! Now that I have that out of the way, may I say that Lyssa did not disappoint.  

Phew – now that we have that out in the open, on with Lyssa’s story. 

Lyssa had a unique take on that resistance you feel before you take the step. “I think I’ve over time come to really love that resistance as a friend because if I am somehow wanting something but not making progress on it that resistance is there to say ‘maybe not yet’. 

“And I find that I live with things for I’m going to make this concrete in a moment. Because right now it’s quite abstract, I realized, but I find that I live with concepts for quite a while before I’m really ready to move on them. And it takes a while for the vision to come forward. And for me to find a way to do some small experiments. And through those small experiments, prove to myself that I really am okay over here in this new thing. And then the resistance fades and my full vision can come online.” 

This really made me think, it was not something I had considered before. I always try to push through that resistance as quickly as I can.  

Lyssa and I agreed an example would be great. 

“There’s one thing in particular that has been brewing for me for probably about 10 years now. And that’s something related to climate change. 

“I became aware of our climate predicament about 10 years ago and was utterly devastated. 

“And then sort of went to sleep about it as I built a business and focused on my mission in Agile coaching. 

“Just recently I have realized that things have progressed in the climate realm and we’re now faced with living with climate disasters, which wasn’t true as much 10 years ago. And I now have more time to really consider what is my role? 

“I’ve started to have dreams about this thing called the Climate Response Network. And I think what it is, is a network of Agile consultancies and coaching organizations around the world that are finely tuned and able to help climate responder organizations. For example, the people who might be organizing how the wildfire response is happening in Australia. 

“For a long time, I was sort of thinking maybe that’s where I’m called. I’m even having dreams about it at night but still sort of not making any real tangible progress on it. And whereas I used to find that sort of unconscious or intangible resistance, that resistance underneath the surface. I used to look at it and go: ‘you don’t need to be here, I’m gonna kick you out of the way and I’m going to do this anyway.’ I’ve come over time to learn that’s part of my process actually. Because my vision is coming more clearly into focus.” 

For Lyssa there is also an element of talking about it to others to help focus the idea into something more actionable. What also tends to happen during this resistance is that Lyssa finds the people and connections she needs to make it happen start to come onto her life. That helps to build momentum and reassurance that Lyssa is on the right track. 

Lyssa split stepping out of your comfort zone into a couple of types – go for it if you are trying to grow, learn etc. But if you have a compelling vision then maybe sit in the resistance a while, pay attention to that resistance. 

“And is the nature of their resistance about a belief that they’re not they’re not ‘blank’ whatever the ‘blank’ is – I’m not smart enough, strong enough, I’m don’t have the right connections. Because if that’s the situation as my coach friends always like to say, self-confidence can be arranged. 

“If the nature of the resistance is that ‘is that you?’ So for me I’ve been in the pit of despair about where we are as a planetary ecosystem. We’re very quickly encroaching on the planetary boundaries of the planet can sustain human life. So if it’s that I would say go into the despair even more which is kind of a strange thing to say. 

“Because in that depth is the yearning, the desire and maybe some clarity about what part of this is yours and what part of this is other people to do.” 

I am continuously awed by the different perspectives each person brings to stepping out of their comfort zone. 

Thank you again Lyssa for your thoughts! 

A little about Lyssa:

I am a coach, facilitator, teacher and inspirer.

My current focus is improving the performance of top leadership teams and Boards of Directors through insightful facilitation and organization systems coaching. Making difficult decisions faster and with clear alignment, unknotting challenging, multi-department impediments, creating the conditions for organizational delivery…this is where I thrive and help thrive.

Genuine Confidence

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Photo by Kane Reinholdtsen on Unsplash
Story by Fiona based on an interview with Beresford

So how do you go from being a really shy kid to wanting to speak in an auditorium? Beresford has taken that very path!  

As an example of Beresford’s starting point, at about age 20 he was the best man at his cousins wedding, and as we all know part of the best man role is to give a speech. Despite preparing his speech, and knowing his cousin quite well, Beresford “just froze and I couldn’t even open my mouth. I just stood there, and it seemed endless. I just didn’t say anything. In the end I ended up saying ‘the bridesmaids look good’. And I walked off. Those are the only words that came out of my mouth. And it was really embarrassing.” 

At this point many people would just decide public speaking was not for them! But Beresford was motivated to improve. His dad was an excellent and sought after public speaker – both rehearsed and off the cuff.  After some research it was suggested that Beresford try Toastmasters.  And a mere 15-20 years later he joined. 

Through Toastmasters Beresford has not just gained confidence, but also skill. His first speech “didn’t come out the way I wanted it to, it was kind of bland. There wasn’t a lot of energy.” 

Beresford is working on bringing out his personality more when he speaks, he is motivated to keep getting better and better at public speaking, as well as his goal to speak to an audience of over 1000 people. 

Part of the motivation for Beresford, aside from wanting to improve himself, is to help other people develop as well. “I’m one of the mentors for the Melbourne University programme. I’m one of the panel members, helping young people develop their capabilities and skills. It’s not only for myself, but it’s also for others that I try to share my knowledge.” 

Beresford also spoke to me about how building his confidence in public speaking has made him more confident to take on other challenges. 

In 2019 Beresford was one of the new Ways of Working coaches at Telstra, a role you had to put in an expression of interest for. “Being a coach involves changing people’s mindset. Which is not easy to do. It’s a different aspect of your confidence, because previously it’s being confident to go up and speak in front of a group of people, but now it’s actually speaking to a person individually, and changing that person’s mindset.  

“The way I’ve handled things in the past was someone’s got their mindset, and I just told them what my opinions are. And it’s up to them to change if they wanted to. But now being in the Agile ways of working, and the company has gone in a certain direction, it’s more that I have to make sure they are moving in that direction.” 

The rewards of coaching can also be more delayed than giving a speech – one example Beresford gave me was working with someone for 6 weeks before having a breakthrough “After six weeks, they said ‘oh yeah, I can start to see the benefits. Now even though we are building code, we can still talk to our colleagues every day for about 15 minutes. And at least try and understand what the blockers are and we can remove those blockers’”. 

Beresford had an interesting take away from that experience “And what I realised was, if you tell someone once, it kind of goes in one ear and out the other. But if you keep telling them the same thing, they start to believe it. So, if I tell someone, ‘you’re an idiot’? First time, it’s just goes in and out. But if I keep telling them the same thing over and over again, they start to believe it.” Makes you think about what messages we are putting out there. 

Confidence was a common theme throughout Beresford’s chat with me, but he also talked about being genuine. “People need to be able to trust you. Because you can have all the confidence in the world, right? If you go to a car yard, the car salesman has got a lot of confidence, but I don’t trust them. So you may have the confidence but you still have to be genuine. People can pick that up pretty easily.” 

If you are considering stepping out of your comfort zone, Beresford has some advice for you: “Know your weaknesses and don’t procrastinate – commit!” 

About Beresford:
Beresford is a fellow Ways of Working coach at Telstra. He is also passionately involved at Toastmasters

Know your line

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Photo by Alexandre Chambon on Unsplash
Words by Fiona based on an interview with Tanya

I started my conversation with Tanya talking about her amazing business – Girl Shaped Flames – but then she mentioned a time she stepped out of her comfort zone and it didn’t work out. And she kindly allowed me to focus on that part of her experience – but I will start by saying Tanya has had success outside of her comfort zone both before and after this particular experience! 

When Tanya was 24 she got a role as a film production manager in the UK with very little experience and was very good at it! 2 years later and one of her contacts wanted to work with her on a film he was the 1st assistant director on.  

“And he called me up and said, ‘I’m working on another film and It’d be so cool if we could work together again. They already have a production manager on the job, but I wonder if I could find another role for you to come on as.’ 

“And, as it turned out, he managed to wrangle me into a second assistant director role, which is very similar to production manager because essentially you’re in charge of organising things, but the difference is that you’re organising people (and let’s be honest egos.  I was more used to managing resources, crew, logistics etc.” 

“I sort of went into it a little bit naive thinking I can figure the differences in the roles out. I’m sure it’s fine. But very quickly, within a few days of me being there, I started questioning whether I actually knew how to handle the nuances of the job or not.  That partnered with a pretty unsupportive production manager on set who was frustrated that the 1st AD had hired someone inexperienced for the role. I certainly went in just trying to do the best job I could, and it was fairly challenging circumstances. But the whole time I just had this feeling in the pit of my stomach that I wasn’t sure whether this was all going to plan. 

“We did six weeks of prep, and then we were supposed to have a six-week shoot, but about three and a half weeks into shooting things just dissolved to a point where I was really struggling in the role. I imagine it was partly a conflict of my skillset not being quite right as well as the challenges presented clashing with the PM.   

“But there came one day where I basically had not been able to give the lead actress the attention that she needed while she was waiting to be called to set, because I was just overwhelmed with other work and I lost track of time really. She was in a very fragile state. She was away from her family. She’s had very  emotional and draining scenes in the film, and she had a bit of a meltdown, essentially.  

“And this was a situation that was really my responsibility to keep under control, and I hadn’t. It all came crashing down on me.  

“So off the back of that it presented a good time for myself and the film to ‘mutually part ways’, which is the polite way of saying that I was pretty much fired because if I hadn’t chosen to go, they were going to have to fire me anyway. 

“That was hands down the most confidence shattering experience that went against all of the beliefs I had in myself and the world. The world where I thought ‘you can take on any challenge, you can throw yourself into anything. If you work really hard, and you try really hard, you will find a way to make things work and succeed’. And the fact that I had done all those things yet it had still not succeeded really shook the foundations of how I functioned as a human being. Two days later (which happened to be my birthday) I got on a plane and flew back to Australia and I hid out at my mum’s house for five weeks, refusing to go back to London because I was so distraught over what this meant – my film career, and my dream, felt over.” 

Tanya has found that processing is critical in recovering from an event like this. “We’re all really quick to say ‘Don’t worry, brush it off, it’s fine. It doesn’t matter. Keep going, it’s all good.’ But that’s not how we work as people. It’s not how we work mentally or emotionally, really, we do need time to process and we need time to cry and be angry and it’s almost like you go through the stages of mourning: denial, bargaining etc until finally you come out the other side of it.” 

Tanya started slowly and, with lots of support, got back into the producer and production manager role that she was confident in. 

I asked Tanya if this experience changed her willingness to set out of her comfort zone, and the answer was that it didn’t necessarily change her willingness, but she is less emotional when she decides to do so “it has definitely made me think a little bit more, consider a bit more thoroughly.” 

But she’s determined to continue to promote confidence development and risk taking within the younger generation coming through. Tanya gives the below advice to high school girls on her Girl Shaped Flames program: 

“What’s really important is developing a very clear understanding of yourself and trying to understand what excites you, what terrifies you, what you’re good at, what you’re not good at, what you like and what you don’t like as early as possible. 

Because the more you do that, and the more you understand yourself, the greater your belief in your capacity becomes – and whether that’s capacity to succeed in a professional environment, or whether it’s capacity to survive in an adventure opportunities. Because when we believe, when we understand our own capacity, it positions us in such a better place to say yes when opportunities that sit outside of our comfort zone arise. 

“One of the talks I give the girls is about your ‘line of perceived ability’. We talk about how you might think that your line of perceived ability is here. If you try this new thing that is over that line, and you don’t reach all the way there, but you reach part way you move your line a little bit further out. That line doesn’t come back. It’s not elastic, it doesn’t snap back, that line stays out.  

“So once you’ve spoken in front of 100 people, you spoke in front of hundred people, no one can take that away. It might not have been 1000 people but it was 100. That is what you know you’re capable of doing. 

“So I guess my advice to people around stepping out of their comfort zone is yes, 100%: do it. But the more you can spend time and effort really developing a solid understanding of yourself and your strengths and passion points, then when you have the opportunity to expand the line further and further out. So eventually so many more things are IN your comfort zone!” 

Awesome advice Tanya! 

A bit about Tanya:

Originating from regional QLD (Yeppoon) Tanya Meessmann is an internationally-experienced Communications, Branding and Film professional and the founder of Girl Shaped Flames: a Brisbane-based organisation connecting Secondary girls with Extraordinary Women across a variety of industries for experiential opportunities that help them identify the fire within and break through limitations to reach their full potential.  Over the past 2 years months she has connected over 2500 girls, parents and educators with over 170 strong, female role models through more than 80 live events across the state.

Being You

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Photo by Brandon Hoogenboom on Unsplash
Words by Fiona based on an interview with Julie

“More concerned about the success of others than their own personal gain” are the words that caught Julie’s attention in the job ad, and I am not surprised as that describes her accurately! 

The fact that Julie was living in San Francisco and the ad was posted by a friend in London about a job in Sydney, it was all too far fetched? However, the idea of getting the job had Julie dreaming about Sydney summers. Quickly followed by ‘who do I think I am? I can’t do this. I’ve never been a tech founder. I’ve worked in start-ups, but you’re crazy.’ 

Serendipitously, Julie then read an HBR article about men applying for jobs when they only have 2 of the 10 criteria, so she decided to at least have the conversation. And ignore the imposter syndrome rearing it’s ugly head. 

Julie has a name for her ‘imposter voice’. I think we all have that voice that says we are not good enough? Julie has named hers Beatrice. Well, Julie quietened Beatrice by taking things one step at a time. ‘You know what, I’m still going to have this conversation. I’m going to talk to Annie. I wasn’t really looking to move or take this job and I was just having the conversation. So, I just kept saying yes, and here I am. 

‘Annie flew me down here [Sydney] when I had my interview. She turned on all the works. It was January so the sun was out. We walked from downtown to Rose Bay and I went stand up paddle boarding in the bay with the Harbour Bridge behind me crystal blue water. She flew me up to Brisbane and I met with Steve Baxter aka Shark of Shark Tank, I had no idea who he was.  

I just decided to show up as myself. We were talking about investing in start-ups and I said “there’s market-based solutions for social impact. We can we can do good and make money at the same time.” And again I did not know Steve Baxter at that point. And I couldn’t understand why everyone was on the edge of their seats hanging on my every word! Steve said “No, no, no, we make our money first, then we give it away”. Which was fine. I’m glad that I showed up in what I believe but also knew not to have continuing argument with him. Steve and I are good friends now.’ 

This was not the first (or last) time Julie stepped out of her comfort zone! Julie helped set up the Salesforce Foundation after meeting Marc Benioff and making such an impression with her advice about his plans that he offered her the role! She moved from Atlanta, where she had been a student, teacher and technology specialist over the span of 12 years, to San Francisco based on the regrets she would have if she didn’t. ‘There is nothing I have to lose’. 

Julie has found that being around the right type of people and energy is really important to her resilience but learning to not try and control things and focusing on seeing the glass as half full help her to bounce back when she finds herself ‘curling up’. 

I asked Julie what drives her to step out of her comfort zone, and her answer was as beautifully original as she is ‘Knowing that there’s support and trying new things. Creating new synapses. Being able to be creative and try that try new things. Being unique. Trying to be the only one doing it so I’m not compared to anyone else. So you don’t have to have that judging. And not being afraid to ask…..’ 

‘When I was in school I was a technology specialist in the middle school. I was the only tech specialist in that school amongst all the teachers. You couldn’t really compare me to anyone else. That’s maybe a safety mechanism. I’m protecting myself. There’s no other bar. I have to set the bar.’ 

I think that is fabulous motivation for trying something new! 

Julie finished off with her passion about celebrating failure. 

‘I’ve become more comfortable [with failure] and when I do talks I get people to be more comfortable with the little tiny mistakes and being okay not to be judged. Think about your body when you make a mistake and what happens – you physically curl up and you change your whole body. Think about times when you won a race or completed something – your body goes big. 

‘It’s a totally different feeling and you can move on and continue. So, next time when you make a mistake how crazy and odd would it be to trick your body into celebrating and throw your arms wide open? It is counterintuitive, but if you physically celebrate your failures you feel differently about them and are more able to go on.’ 

Thank you so much Julie for sharing your story and viewpoint. 

Flying out of your comfort zone!

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Photo by Leon McBride on Unsplash
Words by me (Fiona) based on an interview with Lynne Cazaly

Often I interview people who are regularly stepping out of their comfort zone. Lynne fits firmly in that category. Our chat covered many fabulous subjects – including her starting helicopter lessons! 

Lynne started by telling me about one of the first time she recalls doing something outside of her area of expertise – facilitating a workshop for the Australian Junior Chamber. “I was getting more and more into speaking and then someone said, ‘Oh, would you facilitate a workshop we’ve got coming up’ and I said yes, thinking it’s probably just like emceeing, right. Once I started looking at what is facilitation I realised ‘Oh, my God, what have I got myself into’ and many times I wanted to ring up this guy and say ‘You know what, I’m not doing it. This is so not my area of expertise. I don’t know what I’m doing. This is not for me.’ But I had this incredible pride as well. I thought how can you bail out on something? It’s like someone’s seen potential in you or is giving you an opportunity and here you are saying no.” Lynne went ahead. And nailed it. 

Facilitation is now very much within Lynne’s comfort zone these days, so she seeks out other opportunities. Like a helicopter flying lesson! “I’ve been a massive plane aviation geek for a number of years, and a few weeks ago, I had my first lesson in a helicopter. I love a helicopter ride, but I’m usually more interested in sitting in the front seat watching what’s happening rather than looking at the scenery. So my 2020 step out of my comfort zone (or fly out of my comfort zone) will be getting a helicopter licence.” 

Lynne is motivated to spend so much time out of her comfort zone because “we don’t usually feel achievement without challenge”. As Lynne described her first lesson her face lit up with joy. “Even in that first lesson, I learned so much about what makes the helicopter go up and forward and sideways and I was doing all that very quickly. There was an incredible learning curve and incredible achievement in just the first 90 minutes!” 

Lynne and I chatted about other times she has recently stepped out of her comfort zone – such as talking to CPAs in 6 different Australian cities. Then we talked about how she feels leading up to something new “Usually a couple of days before I will be thinking about it a lot while I’m doing other things. And I tend to imagine, do some sort of mental rehearsal. [On the day] I feel pretty good in the morning and then about half an hour to an hour before I get really nervous. That only lasts for a little while and I take some deep breaths and as it’s getting closer and closer to the time I really love that feeling of the anticipation. Instead of nervousness, it’s anticipation. That’s what I would call it.” 

I asked Lynne about what she would tell someone about the benefits of stepping out of their comfort zone if they were reluctant to do so “It gives you a different perspective and a different experience. If you imagine you go to a restaurant or cafe and you order the same thing all the time, because that’s what you like getting from there. The next time you go, your job is to order something different. And that’s stepping out of your comfort zone right there. It’s looking at the menu and saying I’m going to try something else. And from that moment on, everything’s different. The anticipation, the lead up, the eating the meal, and afterwards, that’s all new. The benefits start immediately from the fact that you made that decision to try something different. I imagine that our brain changes, the neuro plasticity in our mind changes, and the way we see the world starts to change. And we become ready for many, many better things that are ahead and shit things that are ahead too.” 

We also talked about how you know where your comfort zone ends if you never test it or push it. It is something that changes with our experiences. Even within the one flying lesson: “When the training pilot says ‘you have the controls’. I have to respond. ‘I have the controls’. So now I’m responsible? I’m flying it, that is [completely] out of my comfort zone. And I’m experiencing it. I’m going ‘ohhh shit this is scary’. But I did it. And then I gave the controls back to him. And when we did another manoeuvre and he said, ‘okay, you have the controls.’ And this time I thought ‘I’ve done this. I’ve done this before’.” 

Finally, we talked about the areas of people’s lives they are willing to take risk in, I think we agreed logic does not apply! “What about blogging? How many people are saying ‘I want to blog, I want to blog, I’ve written blogs’, and they don’t press publish. But they will go and ride in the backseat of a taxi in South America or they’ll put themselves in high risk situations, with regards to personal safety, but they won’t do something that might advance their career and make them more confident in the long run.” 

And I will leave you with that final thought to ponder – are you avoid risk in the wrong places? 

About Lynne:

“Workplaces of today need to be increasingly agile, responsive and adaptive. People want to be part of a smart team doing great, meaningful, awesome work!” – Lynne Cazaly

I’m obsessed with helping leaders lead their teams through transformation and change.

This is about business agility, about helping people apply their ideas and adapting to what happens when those ideas are put to practice. Leaders become more capable, boost engagement with their staff and make decisions quicker.

Remember Your Why

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Story by me (Fiona) based on an interview with Tessa

I heard Tessa speak recently and I immediately found (stalked?) her online and asked if she was willing to be interviewed for this blog. To my excitement she agreed – and the interview did not disappoint me! 

Tessa believes that stepping out of your comfort zone helps you grow. And that sometimes you need to do it to get where you want to be in life. 

“I’d worked in marketing for some time, probably for about 10 years of my career. My comfort zone got pushed, but I’d say moderately, such as when you learn a new role you step up.  

“I had this conversation with my GM of HR at Spark Digital. And she said, ‘What is your ambition? Where do you want to go?’ And told her that one day I’d love to be a CEO of kind of moderate sized organization. ‘I’m trying to work out the skills I need to get there. And I think I need more commercial skills.’ 

“And you know, that moment where you put something out into the universe, but you never expect anyone to act on it? Probably within about three days, she came up to me: ‘We’ve had this business manager resign in our enterprise sales team, one of the sales managers, I’m putting you up for the role’.” 

Tessa wondered what she could add as the leader of a team much more experienced than she was, particularly in sales. But her GM encouraged her (strongly!) to take the jump, to get those skill she needs. There was a full interview process and testing, and Tessa got the job! 

Her new boss told Tessa that she needed a marketer in sales, a big thinker. Someone to shake up her leadership team. 

The announcement of her new role – alongside an internal promotion announced at the same time – was really hard “It was deathly silent, you could have heard a pin drop. And then there were a couple of people who knew me from marketing who started to click. This was the most embarrassing moment of my life. I was taking on sales in a big portfolio. And I had a room of 80 people who had no idea who I was and were confused as to why a marketer was given one of the most preeminent positions in sales.” 

Tessa realised that she needed to focus on coaching her team as a leader, not trying to coach them in sales. This she realised would stand her in good stead as a CEO – after all you cannot be the expert in all aspects of the company you run. 

It was not easy! “About the 10-week mark, I had a complete meltdown. I didn’t know how to coach these people. They were much older. They were older than me, and more experienced than me in sales. I ended up back in my GM of HRs office in floods of tears. And with my GM of Sales basically picking me up off the floor because I said ‘I can’t do this, I have to leave. I’m not the person you need. I’m not doing anything.’ And they quickly got support around me. They listened and then said, ‘Okay, so how do we move forward?’  

“And they gave me a leadership coach who helped me to separate fact from myth. I had a whole lot of language in my head. I suppose that voice that you talk to yourself with was really highly critical. And that voice kept saying to me, ‘you’re getting this wrong and you don’t know that, you don’t know this’, and I couldn’t hear the things that people were actually saying to me. I had a person on my team, who said to me ‘You’re a breath of fresh air. You just bring something different. I love watching you in front of customers.’ And I couldn’t hear that I could only hear. ‘I don’t know what to tell them to sell and I don’t understand the system well enough to sell it.’ 

“My coach helped me to grow my understanding. ‘Listen to the voice in your head and write down what it says and then see if there is any data that supports it. Is there anybody said that directly to you? Is there anything that backs it up?’ and then ‘Okay, now write down the facts. What are people saying to you?’ Understand that difference between fact and myth. 

The lessons Tessa learned in her first 12 months – that it is ok to ask for help, and that sometimes you don’t know what help you need until you hit rock bottom being two of those lessons – aided her in putting up her hand when Spark Digital decided to go Agile. 

“I learned at that point that ambiguity is fine. And I don’t know what I don’t know and no one else does either. So we’re going to learn and I think the year of sales had taught me how to learn again, taught me how to walk into something that’s really uncomfortable and realize you’re going to be okay. My husband said to me at one point ‘What’s the worst that can happen? You leave sales and get another job? Is that so bad? You know, there are worse things.’ 

“And sometimes I think we compare up too much. We imagine if this was better, or if only this was like this. Instead [we could be] saying ‘at least it’s not like this. I haven’t got an illness, at least I’m not struggling to make ends meet at the moment. I’ve had a successful career so far’. And I think sometimes comparing down is a really helpful technique to make you realize that you’re okay.  You’re just learning, and learning can be uncomfortable when you’ve been really good at knowing everything. 

“It did fundamentally shift me as a person and my ability to then take on the next challenge, and to now help other people take on bigger challenges.” 

Finally, Tessa advises to remember why you are doing what you are doing. What your north star is. That can help in tough times. 

Thank you Tessa for sharing your story with us! 

About Tessa:

As Product Director Tessa is responsible for designing and delivering products and service experiences that customers value. Tessa is also responsible for shaping Spark’s investments and maturing capability in digital, IT, data and experience design to deliver on future business needs. 

She joined Spark in November 2015 as the Manager of Brand, Communications and Events for Spark Digital before moving on to become Business Manager. In 2017, Tessa joined the team that was responsible for successfully transitioning Spark into an Agile organisation, and is regarded as one of New Zealand’s leading Agile and product development practitioners. 

Tessa brings to the role more than 16 years of experience in information and communication technologies, having previously held a variety of roles at Vodafone New Zealand. She has a Diploma in Communications Studies from Manukau Institute of Technology. 

Stepping onto the stage

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Words by me (Fiona) based on an interview with Vikki

For most people becoming the lead singer in a rock band qualifies as an experience where they would have to step way out of their comfort zone.   Vikki spoke to me recently about doing just that. 

A classically trained singer, Vikki felt no longer excited by what her singing was offering her. Serendipitously there was a rock school being run near her home and she decided to investigate. “I spoke to this chap who was running a Rock School. He was running a little Rock School in his studio in his house. It sounds bizarre, but it happened to be near where I lived, where you would never think there would be rock studios anyway. We had a good chat. He was classically trained as well. So, he understood where I was coming from. You need to get to a point where you enjoy what you’re doing not just to get the grades and improve. I was excited, so I signed up to take the lessons that he was offering through the school. I met this cool guy who’d worked with Wendy Matthews. He was just absolutely awesome. So, I did some work with him, and then I was able to go into the little rock group that was there at this school, which was tiny.” 

And guess what? That is not even Vikki out of her comfort zone – that moment came when she decided to audition for the Weekend Warriors! 

Weekend Warriors auditioned people and then grouped them into bands – so 20 people would become 4 or 5 bands. It was being run by Paul Christie from Mondo Rock. 

“So, what took me out of my comfort zone, getting to the point where I could consider crossing its boundaries was, I guess, that I was no longer stimulated with these other things. I was looking for something else. I was also thinking how old am I going to be before I suddenly become courageous? I wish I had done this in my 20s. At what point do I know? Am I going to be 75 and then be ready? I started searching for answers on the internet regarding the meaning of life. I found this article and there were about five or six things on there. So, the first one was kind of ‘tick, I’m doing that’. Two was ‘tick, yeah, I’m doing that.’ I got to number four or five? And it said, ‘where are you making a fool of yourself?’ And the seventh one was something like ‘and how are you changing the world?’ They really resonated. And I went ‘well, I think this is it.’ I’m looking at having a midlife crisis, deciding I need to find my courage at some point and find this article telling me that I should be out there making a fool of myself. So here I am. This is it. This is what I’ve got to do. I remember sitting in the car waiting to go in and just absolutely terrified, and then I did it.” 

Vikki was very nervous, and as she sang during the audition, Paul looked deep into her eyes and held her hand. She was placed in a band and after 4 weeks of rehearsals they put on a show! Was the audition or the show more nerve racking? The audition was scarier, but the show was also terrifying. Vikki got more comfortable over time, even when she was occasionally off pitch. 

We discussed whether this step outside Vikki’s comfort zone impacted other areas of her life, and she isn’t sure! A whole lot of change all happened around the same time. 

She did learn though. “I think I spent too many years thinking you can only be a singer, for example, if you are making number one records in the charts.   So, I never saw a place for me or the journey there. I think that just giving this a go, taught me to ‘just give it a go’ in general.   And it’s the only way to move forward.   But I think I was always waiting to be amazing before. Don’t wait for amazing. That’s it.   Don’t wait for amazing.”  

Just as we were finishing off the interview Vikki had another important insight she wanted to share – the importance of having fun! “I think one of the other insights or lessons I’ve got is the having fun part.   My journey has included singing in this rock studio tucked away near where I live, then to go into this Golf Club, rock school shows, and I’ve been to Frankie’s in the city with my own band. And so, I feel like I’ve done that, without doing sort of a stadium. I’ve had a big enough taste. The more my band hit these goals, the less fun I was having. So suddenly, the fun elements weren’t there anymore, which I find interesting. I actually had more fun towards the middle. The key message for me is do things for fun, not for gain.   Do it because you love it, do it for fun, do the fun bits of it. Hitting Frankie’s was ‘my ego’s in here now because we’re doing Frankie’s’, but I just didn’t get anything out of it. I didn’t enjoy it. Yeah, a tick in the box, but I didn’t enjoy it. At the same time all these good things were happening for me. I was having leadership coaching, getting the role as a coach, moving into this new space. I feel more connected with the people around me than I ever have. Gee, I didn’t think I was really having a lot of fun at work until I moved into this role. Now it’s become part of my mantra, because if I’m having fun, then I am going to be at my best. And that, I’d say is a lesson that’s gone across both the hobby as well as work. Come to think of it, the one change that’s gone across both my hobby and work and that I proudly call one of my superpowers is  

“the courage to step into the void and trust it”. 

Vikki is currently writing and recording her own music which she realises will not be amazing and she is totally ok with that, because it’s precisely this activity that brings her the most joy 

Thanks Vikki!