Tag: #newjob

Turning up is 90% of the game

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Words by me (Fiona) based on an interview with Monica
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What if you had spent so much of your life outside your comfort zone that your challenge was in settling back into being comfortable?

Meet Monica!

Up until the age of 13 Monica had an idyllic life. One of 8 children with two great parents she was perfectly happy. And then her father passed away suddenly. On the surface life didn’t change, other than missing her dad.

Monica found herself becoming the ‘clever, naughty kid’ after that. “I adopted this persona of always being outside the comfort zone, always being rebellious.”

Monica balanced jobs and school from ages 14 to 17, and then decided to take a gap year as she had no idea what direction to take next. Career advice was varied and not useful!

After finding herself working 5 jobs in Cairns, a push from her mum had her moving back to the city and getting a job at a trading house – the start of something wonderful for Monica!

“And it was just the dynamism of this really complicated global working environment a whole new language to learn – bills of lading, 90cl, futures, phytosanitary certificates, regulations and steamship owners that were German. Russian and Pacific Islanders. It was an interesting process, and I went to work as a shipping clerk.”

Monica describes one of her key attributes as curiosity, which combined with an ability to make friends and retain information had her soon selected to be part of an international fast track program!

“That just then opened up a whole world! This month, you’re going to go to Singapore, and you’re going to learn about our insurance business. Next month, you’re going to go to Hamburg and you’re going to have learn how we manage our asset fleet of breakbulk ships, or every variety of ships and how many ports we own around the world. You are going to learn the economics of the cattle/beef industry, from paddock to burger. As a 22-year-old kid I just soaked all this up.”

Monica’s career went from strength to strength, a combination of confidence and talent seeing her succeed in whatever she set her mind to. She moved from Brisbane to Perth to Sydney and then to New York as part of her career progression.

For 8 years in US she thrived then as she turned 30 she reflected on her next step and incidentally started to meet women 10 years older and whilst “successful” in their careers and earnings they were unhappy. That was the first trigger in her decision to come home to Australia, but there was more “I think something sat with me from meeting those all the women and I got a glimpse of my future self.

“I actually got sick because I’ve flown a lot and I picked up a virus, I think on a trip back from South America. And I remember I flew into Miami and was feeling just not quite well. I went to whoever the doctor was according to our health plan, and before I knew it, they put me into the ICU because what I’d actually picked up was a viral infection in my heart muscle.”

It was not long after that Monica moved home to Brisbane and moved in with her mum, who sadly passed away 4 months later.

Monica struggled to get a job in Brisbane – a recruiter suggested her experience and her New York accent may have been intimidating to the branch offices in that smaller city – but instead of moving to a bigger city Monica embarked on an MBA – and 2 years later topped the Dean’s list. Another year on she married a pilot and move to Dubai where she embarked on another 9-year adventure in Arabic foreign wealth funds.

Her marriage lasted a decade and she moved back to her beloved Brisbane in 2012.  “The divorce gave me cause to reflect.”

Monica shared with me at this stage that if it is work related, she has no issue solving problems, but struggled more with being uncomfortable / vulnerable on a personal level.

“One of my brothers suffers with bipolar. In the last five years, I took my brother in and he came to live with me. And I started to get a real appreciation of mental illness as an illness not as something that people should just get over.

“I got the understanding of just how cruel and hurtful people going through both ends of that cycle are. I felt useless. I just felt like it was something I couldn’t fix. And that really, for a long while, it really affected me. And it took me a while to develop a mindset about removing all my unconscious bias that it was about my brother. It’s not just get out of bed and do something. That’s my method. That’s not healing. 

“It took me a long while but I’ve reframed my whole mindset around, this is an illness. And if he had cancer, I would be there in a heartbeat with whatever it needed done. And so I just had to accept it was something out of my control, and I had to manage it. Like I would manage the volatility of the marketplace, and say, whatever version of my brother turns up today, I’ll be okay. I think that was helpful. And that’s helped me a lot more in this last phase of my career. Because I think now, I’m much more of a humanist.”

And Monica’s advice to others about stepping out of their comfort zone?

“It’s hard, but you can’t let it disable you. I would implore them to go to a time where the first experience has been discomfort, like when they learn to drive, the first time you ever get behind the wheel of a car, you think you’re never going to be able to do this. The first time you go out for a run, you think I’ll never be able to run more than 20 minutes. The first time you touch a computer, are you ever going to be able to type? I think there’s lots of examples in our lives where we’ve had discomfort, but we just work our way through it. And for me, I think turning up is 90% of the game. So turn up”

Great advice Monica!

Comfortable being Uncomfortable

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Words by me (Fiona) based on an interview with Drew
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I asked Drew if he would let me interview him when I heard him talk about being out of his comfort zone a lot, and he said it with joy!

Drew has many examples, but I will share today what he told me about his role as the Executive General Manager of High Performance at Cricket Australia.

Being approached for a role is not a new experience for Drew – winning Olympic gold medals makes you fairly high profile – but this one surprised him “I was called by one of our former athlete management representatives,  he rang me out of the blue and asked ‘What are you doing right now?’ And I said ‘I’m walking around the athletic field watching my son do cross country training’. And he clarified ‘what are you doing workwise”. The answer was rowing and coaching.

“He then asked would you consider another sport? And I said, ‘what sport’ and he goes ‘Cricket’.

“I didn’t know anything about the sport at all!”

Drew had no experience in cricket, none as a performance manager and had lost his job as head coach of the national rowing team just 12 months earlier.

But what he did have was a lifetime of being bold and giving things a go.

Drew credits his dad and his coaches with that approach to life “what I’ve been encouraged always do is stick your hand up have a crack at something, it’s okay to fail. It’s okay to make mistakes.”

Drew is also okay with not knowing and being open about that. “What I’ve worked out is it’s okay to show that you don’t know what you’re talking about, you’re not across it. But asking questions and that sort of stuff is what makes me feel more comfortable.”

He took on the role – trusting that the CEO, and athlete manager knew him well enough to be know if he was the right fit – and hope they would not judge his lack of cricket specific knowledge.

An unusual sense of optimism is one of Drew’s personality traits that enables him to take risks. But he also has a lot of self-awareness. Drew knows that he is more comfortable failing in front of strangers than people he knows “To go to a surf beach as a kid, where you don’t know anyone, but there are others surfing I felt relatively okay with giving that a go. But if I came to my local surf beach where I knew everyone on the water, I found my apprehension would go through the roof. And sometimes I would talk myself out of going in the water.

“What I’m suggesting here is we have to get to know ourselves first. Work out the things that either trigger us positively or negatively about a situation.”

Drew is also aware of his motivations – committing to at least one other person is a great way for Drew to not ignore his alarm in the morning!

When it comes to things like public speaking, Drew uses tactics learned as a rower to ground himself. “It didn’t make the nerves any better. But what I generally found was it meant that my mind was less active. And so the thoughts or self talk slowed down.

“The interesting thing about self talk is when your self doubts and your self talk really get magnified, and almost to the point where it’s sort of stopping you and debilitating. When I was rowing if you put your hand in the water, it’s amazing. If you just feel the viscosity, you feel a temperature and all that stuff. It’s like your mind can’t be anywhere else apart from feeling that and so it slows everything down. It just gets you away from the past, present, future dynamic, and also the positive, negative dynamic. It gets you into ‘it’s just water and just the temperature and it’s just the feeling’. It’s the same thing with breathing. I think breathing helps us in that way a lot. And so I find whenever I’ve got to lead a meeting, or do a presentation of any sort just taking a few deep breaths and centring yourself into you what really matters most now. It doesn’t necessarily mean that the anxiety or concern go away, but they go away enough to give you insight.”

Drew’s advice to get more comfortable with being uncomfortable is to start small. Try something new. That small change, being uncomfortable, gives you a new perspective and can be the catalyst for bigger changes. Maybe even a gold medal or three?

Thank you so much Drew!

A bit about Drew:

A life of passion for family, sport and adventures. Working in high performance is a gift and since transitioning as an athlete into my work life it’s been a privilege to engage with great people working to achieving great outcomes. 

Understand your why

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A waterbird sitting in the middle of a pool of water
Words by me (Fiona) based on an interview with Brian.
Image by me.

Brian didn’t feel that stepping out of his comfort zone was a choice. He had reached a point in his life where his high-powered career was costing him physically, emotionally and mentally. He had a tipping point at an international airport, and the story he shared is what happened after that.

As a little back story – Brian moved to Australia with his family as a transfer for the company he was working for in South Africa. Shortly after he arrived the dotcom crash meant he had to close his division! He continued on for 12 months before moving to an IT security business where he moved from ops director to COO to being part of running the Asian arm of the company. By this point he was away more than home, and this was having an impact on his relationships with his family and others.

It was sitting in Bangalore airport that Brian found himself silently crying – pointed out to him by a stranger! “And I’m embarrassed to say that I now realize I was having an emotional breakdown in Bangalore airport. And that I was living an unaligned and therefore unsustainable life. I was getting paid a lot of money but I was disconnected from family and friends. I was unhealthy physically, mentally, emotionally, and it just all came to a head.”

Brian feels that, since then, the next 12 years has included two parallel journeys – one above the line and one below the line. The below the line journey was about better understanding his struggle with anxiety and depression and being able to manage ‘it’, rather than ‘it’ continuing to manage him. The above the line journey was all about “becoming the person I was designed to be. We all are unique. And it’s about really trying to understand how that all comes together into some sort of uniqueness”. This above the line journey has led to Brian becoming an ‘Alignment and Movement Strategist’.

Some of Brian’s above the line journey was accidental. An offer of a senior position at a big company fell through at the last minute. Taking that job would have led to a different outcome “I don’t think I would have survived. I know it wasn’t right for me.

“Increasingly though, I am living a life of increased intentionality, and a lot of what I help my clients to do is live more intentionally too.”

Six years ago, Brian started his own practice, as an Alignment and Movement Strategist, and has not looked back!

His advice for anyone planning – or being forced – to move out of their comfort zone?

“Don’t do it alone. And be kind to yourself.”

Brian also reflected on using what you have experienced rather than always looking forward: “I find that leaders live in the future. It’s part of why they get paid. They’re thinking about what’s coming, what’s happening, preparing themselves, their teams, their business for the future. I think the mindfulness movement has been quite helpful in slowing people down and being more present. However, an area that I think leaders tend not to go is the past. Yet so much learning in the past. Take the time to learn from it.”

“If someone’s wanting to step out of their comfort zone I would love to explore why. And I would say what they want probably has something to do with their backstory and the past”.

“For me part of the intentionality thing is, what is it you are moving away from and what are you moving towards? And appreciating what you have now.”

Brian finished with some last words that I loved: “Really engage with your why!”

A little about Brian:
Brian describes himself an Alignment and Movement Strategist – working as a Mentor, an Executive Coach, a Facilitator, and is passionate about helping both organisations and individuals, operate in a more aligned, more sustainable and therefore more effective manner, with a strong sense of movement in the ‘right’ direction.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianrichardgardner

Find Your Own Path

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Image by me (Fiona)
Words by me based on an interview with Gordon

Gordon wants to make a difference in the lives of the majority – the 99% not the 1%. He wants to help people achieve extraordinary outcomes. He says he gets called a square peg in a round hole.

I think he is a man with great passions and an unconventional approach!

One of Gordons biggest steps outside his comfort zone was when he put his hand up for a C-suite role in the international firm he worked for. He was only about 20-25% qualified for the position! What Gordon did was obtain the support of the COO and a really respected financial adviser so when he asked for the role he went in with support ready to go! His first task was to make part of the team redundant – so he certainly stayed uncomfortable once he started the role.

Gordon believes that our experiences shape our comfort zones “I think it stems from my childhood.  I think there’s five or six different instances that change your life. Maybe it’s being bullied three times a day school. And the way I got myself out of that was to learn martial art. Then I came to Australia where I didn’t know anyone. And the first question you get asked in Australia is which football team do you support? Which school did you go to? Well, I don’t support an Australian football team. And I’ve never been to an Australian school so I had to find my own way.

“I’m dyslexic, so I can’t read well.  So, I can’t write a book. But I can produce a book, I found a different way to produce a book. And then that book was produced in four days. It cost virtually nothing to produce it. And it’s sold over 4000 copies. And I haven’t paid for any advertising at all. “

Gordons advice is not to follow other people’s paths. That may be the right path for them but not necessarily for you.

The benefits Gordon finds outside of his comfort zone are often side effects! One example is that his wife was very ill, requiring a double lung transplant. Unable to keep working in the corporate world, Gordon discovered a passion for medical science and research – and started a very successful charity as a result!

“Life’s too short, a we’ve got to make every day count. And the last thing we need to do is go to the cemetery wondering what if!

“And when you take that step forward, tell people why you have taken that step. Tell people what it means to you, when you take that step. And what you’ll find very quickly is a group of people (I call it  your ecosystem), who are really supporting you. Supporting you in terms of that advice, that support network, that healthy support network that will encourage people to push through. And what will happen is all those toxic people, those people that love to say no will suddenly disappear. So, do it, ‘just do it’ and take people with you . It’s your pathway, but it’s our journey. I’m here to – help and encourage you and support you along the way. I may not have taken the actual step, the same step as you. But I’ve got experiences.”

Thank you, Gordon, for your great story and outlook.

A little about Gordon:

Gordon Jenkins is an authority on visibility and unconventional business growth. As an executive coach, accomplished entrepreneur, speaker and author of Network with Purpose, he helps entrepreneurs and professionals breakthrough their plateau to achieve sustainable business growth and personal life goals. His intention is to facilitate growth that aligns with an individuals’ values and strengths so they achieve success that is meaningful to them

Gordon’s success and that of his clients stems from the strong belief that it’s okay not to conform to the system, it’s refreshing to be different, and that being a square peg in a round hole is a good thing. He is a supporter of the underdog and his purpose is to help ordinary people achieve extraordinary and meaningful outcomes every day. For more information about Gordon, please visit www.iamgordonjenkins.com or LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/iamgordonjenkins/ There is also a free resource: 30 ways to make networking feel less like work

Push the boat out

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Words and image by me (Fiona)
Words based on an interview with Johnathan

Johnathan is a serial ‘step out of your comfort zoner’, but shared with me one of his 9 career transitions!

He was working as a recruiter: “I’d recently removed from New Zealand to Australia. So I was very fortunate enough to come over with a job when we moved here. I was working in in recruitment but my heart wasn’t really in it, I was getting frustrated with how recruitment worked. But one night I thought I know what a good CV and a good LinkedIn profile and I know what a bad one looks like. No one’s actually telling the candidates this we’re just rejecting, rejecting, rejecting. We’re not actually saying ‘hey, this is what you are doing wrong’, there was nobody providing sort of feedback. I felt that everyone was working for the client as a recruitment consultant, but no one was working for the candidate.

“And so I had a like an epiphany moment as I was sitting on the couch off to the shower and I thought, I’m going to try something tomorrow and I’m going to push this boat out as far as I can before it sinks.”

Johnathan ran with his epiphany immediately, talking ‘the mother of all epic sickies’ the very next day and calling a local school that taught Microsoft technical education. He was able to secure a meeting with the head of the school for that afternoon “I said, ‘hey, look, I’m a career coach. And I specialise in helping people build their technical careers. I’d love to come in and talk to your students, if I can, about how to set themselves up for success.’ “

“He said to me, ‘Well, this sounds like a really good idea. When can you come in and talk to one of my classes and share these tips?’ And I say, well, as luck would have it, I have some time available this afternoon!”

Once there Johnathan told the head of the school about his background and his idea – and found himself in front of the students that same visit!

“The guy said to me, ‘this sounds amazing. Tell you what, I’ve got a class running right now. Do you want to jump in right now and just have a bit of a chat to these students?’”

Despite having nothing prepared, Johnathan continued to push that boat out and spoke to the students for an hour and a half!

“I walked out of there really, really invigorated because I kind of reconnected with my passion. So the interesting thing is that he said to me, at the end of it, ‘look, that was fantastic. When can you come in again, we’d like you to develop a programme.’ And I thought to myself, ‘okay, look, I’ll come back to you on that one’ – because I knew I had to go back to work the next day.

“I was so far outside my comfort zone, but I was being kind of propelled by this energy in this interview. And this, this wow feeling. And at the same time I was also had that voice in the back of my head going, What the hell are you doing?”

This huge day led eventually to the business Jonathan now runs.

Johnathan has some great advice for people thinking about stepping out of their comfort zone “One thing that I teach people is reframing the comfort zone or reframing the tasks that you want to accomplish. We’ll call it an experiment, which means if you think about your career, and it’s on a long sort of line, why don’t we take a small part of where you’re sitting at right now, and let’s just extract it out. Let’s find something that you can do. That is not going to impact in your career. If it doesn’t work, we’ll try another approach. So this is not the be all and end all of your whole entire life. But most times we put in a good framework and we set the experiment up for success.”

Johnathan had other great techniques for stepping out of your comfort zone, but instead I am going to share with you his final words – you can always contact Johnathan to find out more!

“Sometimes getting outside your comfort zone means confronting yourself and your professional self in a mirror and going, what am I? Where do I want to go? How do I need to position myself to get there? How do I understand the full range of what who I am and what I do and the value that I bring to an organisation?

“So part of getting out of your comfort zone means going on a journey of figuring out and finding out who and what you are. And that can be an incredibly rewarding experience and one that can really build and foster a greater sense of self confidence in people. So getting outside of your comfort zone can produce an enormous amount of reward, career acceleration, and purpose and fulfilment.”

Thank you so much Johnathan!

About Johnathan:

Johnathan is a Career Consultant who specialises in Professional Identity and Personal Brand Management. Using a structured method, he enables his clients to de-clutter their heads so they can gain a greater understanding of who and what they are, their capabilities and most importantly what makes them valuable. He also helps them increase their professional self-awareness so that they can move their careers forward with greater confidence and clarity of direction. Johnathan typically works with professionals at mid-career phase (Gen-X), to define their professional identity and then build a powerful Personal Brand to help them re-energise their careers and attract exciting opportunities. You can read more at johnmaltby.com. au or connect with him on LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnathanmaltby/

Know your line

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Photo by Alexandre Chambon on Unsplash
Words by Fiona based on an interview with Tanya

I started my conversation with Tanya talking about her amazing business – Girl Shaped Flames – but then she mentioned a time she stepped out of her comfort zone and it didn’t work out. And she kindly allowed me to focus on that part of her experience – but I will start by saying Tanya has had success outside of her comfort zone both before and after this particular experience! 

When Tanya was 24 she got a role as a film production manager in the UK with very little experience and was very good at it! 2 years later and one of her contacts wanted to work with her on a film he was the 1st assistant director on.  

“And he called me up and said, ‘I’m working on another film and It’d be so cool if we could work together again. They already have a production manager on the job, but I wonder if I could find another role for you to come on as.’ 

“And, as it turned out, he managed to wrangle me into a second assistant director role, which is very similar to production manager because essentially you’re in charge of organising things, but the difference is that you’re organising people (and let’s be honest egos.  I was more used to managing resources, crew, logistics etc.” 

“I sort of went into it a little bit naive thinking I can figure the differences in the roles out. I’m sure it’s fine. But very quickly, within a few days of me being there, I started questioning whether I actually knew how to handle the nuances of the job or not.  That partnered with a pretty unsupportive production manager on set who was frustrated that the 1st AD had hired someone inexperienced for the role. I certainly went in just trying to do the best job I could, and it was fairly challenging circumstances. But the whole time I just had this feeling in the pit of my stomach that I wasn’t sure whether this was all going to plan. 

“We did six weeks of prep, and then we were supposed to have a six-week shoot, but about three and a half weeks into shooting things just dissolved to a point where I was really struggling in the role. I imagine it was partly a conflict of my skillset not being quite right as well as the challenges presented clashing with the PM.   

“But there came one day where I basically had not been able to give the lead actress the attention that she needed while she was waiting to be called to set, because I was just overwhelmed with other work and I lost track of time really. She was in a very fragile state. She was away from her family. She’s had very  emotional and draining scenes in the film, and she had a bit of a meltdown, essentially.  

“And this was a situation that was really my responsibility to keep under control, and I hadn’t. It all came crashing down on me.  

“So off the back of that it presented a good time for myself and the film to ‘mutually part ways’, which is the polite way of saying that I was pretty much fired because if I hadn’t chosen to go, they were going to have to fire me anyway. 

“That was hands down the most confidence shattering experience that went against all of the beliefs I had in myself and the world. The world where I thought ‘you can take on any challenge, you can throw yourself into anything. If you work really hard, and you try really hard, you will find a way to make things work and succeed’. And the fact that I had done all those things yet it had still not succeeded really shook the foundations of how I functioned as a human being. Two days later (which happened to be my birthday) I got on a plane and flew back to Australia and I hid out at my mum’s house for five weeks, refusing to go back to London because I was so distraught over what this meant – my film career, and my dream, felt over.” 

Tanya has found that processing is critical in recovering from an event like this. “We’re all really quick to say ‘Don’t worry, brush it off, it’s fine. It doesn’t matter. Keep going, it’s all good.’ But that’s not how we work as people. It’s not how we work mentally or emotionally, really, we do need time to process and we need time to cry and be angry and it’s almost like you go through the stages of mourning: denial, bargaining etc until finally you come out the other side of it.” 

Tanya started slowly and, with lots of support, got back into the producer and production manager role that she was confident in. 

I asked Tanya if this experience changed her willingness to set out of her comfort zone, and the answer was that it didn’t necessarily change her willingness, but she is less emotional when she decides to do so “it has definitely made me think a little bit more, consider a bit more thoroughly.” 

But she’s determined to continue to promote confidence development and risk taking within the younger generation coming through. Tanya gives the below advice to high school girls on her Girl Shaped Flames program: 

“What’s really important is developing a very clear understanding of yourself and trying to understand what excites you, what terrifies you, what you’re good at, what you’re not good at, what you like and what you don’t like as early as possible. 

Because the more you do that, and the more you understand yourself, the greater your belief in your capacity becomes – and whether that’s capacity to succeed in a professional environment, or whether it’s capacity to survive in an adventure opportunities. Because when we believe, when we understand our own capacity, it positions us in such a better place to say yes when opportunities that sit outside of our comfort zone arise. 

“One of the talks I give the girls is about your ‘line of perceived ability’. We talk about how you might think that your line of perceived ability is here. If you try this new thing that is over that line, and you don’t reach all the way there, but you reach part way you move your line a little bit further out. That line doesn’t come back. It’s not elastic, it doesn’t snap back, that line stays out.  

“So once you’ve spoken in front of 100 people, you spoke in front of hundred people, no one can take that away. It might not have been 1000 people but it was 100. That is what you know you’re capable of doing. 

“So I guess my advice to people around stepping out of their comfort zone is yes, 100%: do it. But the more you can spend time and effort really developing a solid understanding of yourself and your strengths and passion points, then when you have the opportunity to expand the line further and further out. So eventually so many more things are IN your comfort zone!” 

Awesome advice Tanya! 

A bit about Tanya:

Originating from regional QLD (Yeppoon) Tanya Meessmann is an internationally-experienced Communications, Branding and Film professional and the founder of Girl Shaped Flames: a Brisbane-based organisation connecting Secondary girls with Extraordinary Women across a variety of industries for experiential opportunities that help them identify the fire within and break through limitations to reach their full potential.  Over the past 2 years months she has connected over 2500 girls, parents and educators with over 170 strong, female role models through more than 80 live events across the state.

Being You

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Photo by Brandon Hoogenboom on Unsplash
Words by Fiona based on an interview with Julie

“More concerned about the success of others than their own personal gain” are the words that caught Julie’s attention in the job ad, and I am not surprised as that describes her accurately! 

The fact that Julie was living in San Francisco and the ad was posted by a friend in London about a job in Sydney, it was all too far fetched? However, the idea of getting the job had Julie dreaming about Sydney summers. Quickly followed by ‘who do I think I am? I can’t do this. I’ve never been a tech founder. I’ve worked in start-ups, but you’re crazy.’ 

Serendipitously, Julie then read an HBR article about men applying for jobs when they only have 2 of the 10 criteria, so she decided to at least have the conversation. And ignore the imposter syndrome rearing it’s ugly head. 

Julie has a name for her ‘imposter voice’. I think we all have that voice that says we are not good enough? Julie has named hers Beatrice. Well, Julie quietened Beatrice by taking things one step at a time. ‘You know what, I’m still going to have this conversation. I’m going to talk to Annie. I wasn’t really looking to move or take this job and I was just having the conversation. So, I just kept saying yes, and here I am. 

‘Annie flew me down here [Sydney] when I had my interview. She turned on all the works. It was January so the sun was out. We walked from downtown to Rose Bay and I went stand up paddle boarding in the bay with the Harbour Bridge behind me crystal blue water. She flew me up to Brisbane and I met with Steve Baxter aka Shark of Shark Tank, I had no idea who he was.  

I just decided to show up as myself. We were talking about investing in start-ups and I said “there’s market-based solutions for social impact. We can we can do good and make money at the same time.” And again I did not know Steve Baxter at that point. And I couldn’t understand why everyone was on the edge of their seats hanging on my every word! Steve said “No, no, no, we make our money first, then we give it away”. Which was fine. I’m glad that I showed up in what I believe but also knew not to have continuing argument with him. Steve and I are good friends now.’ 

This was not the first (or last) time Julie stepped out of her comfort zone! Julie helped set up the Salesforce Foundation after meeting Marc Benioff and making such an impression with her advice about his plans that he offered her the role! She moved from Atlanta, where she had been a student, teacher and technology specialist over the span of 12 years, to San Francisco based on the regrets she would have if she didn’t. ‘There is nothing I have to lose’. 

Julie has found that being around the right type of people and energy is really important to her resilience but learning to not try and control things and focusing on seeing the glass as half full help her to bounce back when she finds herself ‘curling up’. 

I asked Julie what drives her to step out of her comfort zone, and her answer was as beautifully original as she is ‘Knowing that there’s support and trying new things. Creating new synapses. Being able to be creative and try that try new things. Being unique. Trying to be the only one doing it so I’m not compared to anyone else. So you don’t have to have that judging. And not being afraid to ask…..’ 

‘When I was in school I was a technology specialist in the middle school. I was the only tech specialist in that school amongst all the teachers. You couldn’t really compare me to anyone else. That’s maybe a safety mechanism. I’m protecting myself. There’s no other bar. I have to set the bar.’ 

I think that is fabulous motivation for trying something new! 

Julie finished off with her passion about celebrating failure. 

‘I’ve become more comfortable [with failure] and when I do talks I get people to be more comfortable with the little tiny mistakes and being okay not to be judged. Think about your body when you make a mistake and what happens – you physically curl up and you change your whole body. Think about times when you won a race or completed something – your body goes big. 

‘It’s a totally different feeling and you can move on and continue. So, next time when you make a mistake how crazy and odd would it be to trick your body into celebrating and throw your arms wide open? It is counterintuitive, but if you physically celebrate your failures you feel differently about them and are more able to go on.’ 

Thank you so much Julie for sharing your story and viewpoint. 

Remember Your Why

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Photo by Valentín Betancur on Unsplash
Story by me (Fiona) based on an interview with Tessa

I heard Tessa speak recently and I immediately found (stalked?) her online and asked if she was willing to be interviewed for this blog. To my excitement she agreed – and the interview did not disappoint me! 

Tessa believes that stepping out of your comfort zone helps you grow. And that sometimes you need to do it to get where you want to be in life. 

“I’d worked in marketing for some time, probably for about 10 years of my career. My comfort zone got pushed, but I’d say moderately, such as when you learn a new role you step up.  

“I had this conversation with my GM of HR at Spark Digital. And she said, ‘What is your ambition? Where do you want to go?’ And told her that one day I’d love to be a CEO of kind of moderate sized organization. ‘I’m trying to work out the skills I need to get there. And I think I need more commercial skills.’ 

“And you know, that moment where you put something out into the universe, but you never expect anyone to act on it? Probably within about three days, she came up to me: ‘We’ve had this business manager resign in our enterprise sales team, one of the sales managers, I’m putting you up for the role’.” 

Tessa wondered what she could add as the leader of a team much more experienced than she was, particularly in sales. But her GM encouraged her (strongly!) to take the jump, to get those skill she needs. There was a full interview process and testing, and Tessa got the job! 

Her new boss told Tessa that she needed a marketer in sales, a big thinker. Someone to shake up her leadership team. 

The announcement of her new role – alongside an internal promotion announced at the same time – was really hard “It was deathly silent, you could have heard a pin drop. And then there were a couple of people who knew me from marketing who started to click. This was the most embarrassing moment of my life. I was taking on sales in a big portfolio. And I had a room of 80 people who had no idea who I was and were confused as to why a marketer was given one of the most preeminent positions in sales.” 

Tessa realised that she needed to focus on coaching her team as a leader, not trying to coach them in sales. This she realised would stand her in good stead as a CEO – after all you cannot be the expert in all aspects of the company you run. 

It was not easy! “About the 10-week mark, I had a complete meltdown. I didn’t know how to coach these people. They were much older. They were older than me, and more experienced than me in sales. I ended up back in my GM of HRs office in floods of tears. And with my GM of Sales basically picking me up off the floor because I said ‘I can’t do this, I have to leave. I’m not the person you need. I’m not doing anything.’ And they quickly got support around me. They listened and then said, ‘Okay, so how do we move forward?’  

“And they gave me a leadership coach who helped me to separate fact from myth. I had a whole lot of language in my head. I suppose that voice that you talk to yourself with was really highly critical. And that voice kept saying to me, ‘you’re getting this wrong and you don’t know that, you don’t know this’, and I couldn’t hear the things that people were actually saying to me. I had a person on my team, who said to me ‘You’re a breath of fresh air. You just bring something different. I love watching you in front of customers.’ And I couldn’t hear that I could only hear. ‘I don’t know what to tell them to sell and I don’t understand the system well enough to sell it.’ 

“My coach helped me to grow my understanding. ‘Listen to the voice in your head and write down what it says and then see if there is any data that supports it. Is there anybody said that directly to you? Is there anything that backs it up?’ and then ‘Okay, now write down the facts. What are people saying to you?’ Understand that difference between fact and myth. 

The lessons Tessa learned in her first 12 months – that it is ok to ask for help, and that sometimes you don’t know what help you need until you hit rock bottom being two of those lessons – aided her in putting up her hand when Spark Digital decided to go Agile. 

“I learned at that point that ambiguity is fine. And I don’t know what I don’t know and no one else does either. So we’re going to learn and I think the year of sales had taught me how to learn again, taught me how to walk into something that’s really uncomfortable and realize you’re going to be okay. My husband said to me at one point ‘What’s the worst that can happen? You leave sales and get another job? Is that so bad? You know, there are worse things.’ 

“And sometimes I think we compare up too much. We imagine if this was better, or if only this was like this. Instead [we could be] saying ‘at least it’s not like this. I haven’t got an illness, at least I’m not struggling to make ends meet at the moment. I’ve had a successful career so far’. And I think sometimes comparing down is a really helpful technique to make you realize that you’re okay.  You’re just learning, and learning can be uncomfortable when you’ve been really good at knowing everything. 

“It did fundamentally shift me as a person and my ability to then take on the next challenge, and to now help other people take on bigger challenges.” 

Finally, Tessa advises to remember why you are doing what you are doing. What your north star is. That can help in tough times. 

Thank you Tessa for sharing your story with us! 

About Tessa:

As Product Director Tessa is responsible for designing and delivering products and service experiences that customers value. Tessa is also responsible for shaping Spark’s investments and maturing capability in digital, IT, data and experience design to deliver on future business needs. 

She joined Spark in November 2015 as the Manager of Brand, Communications and Events for Spark Digital before moving on to become Business Manager. In 2017, Tessa joined the team that was responsible for successfully transitioning Spark into an Agile organisation, and is regarded as one of New Zealand’s leading Agile and product development practitioners. 

Tessa brings to the role more than 16 years of experience in information and communication technologies, having previously held a variety of roles at Vodafone New Zealand. She has a Diploma in Communications Studies from Manukau Institute of Technology. 

The Other Side of Yes

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Photo by Danka & Peter on Unsplash
Words by me (Fiona) based on an interview with Natalie Peters

Imagine taking on a challenge that was completely out of your comfort zone, a role that was totally new to you and largely unknown by many people in your company. A role that instantly opened you up to criticism and conflict in ways you weren’t really anticipating. That was the position Natalie Peters found herself in when she took on the task to lead the ways of working transformation at Telstra. In her words ‘I think in every possible way, professionally, and personally, the last 2 years has pushed me outside of my comfort zone’.

Belief is a topic that came up several times in my conversation with Nat, including why she persisted to get the results we can now see in Telstra as it clearly wasn’t easy. ‘What kept me going was the belief that it was the right thing to do for Telstra and for our people. Even though at times people were resisting the change and were afraid of what it meant, my belief in it overall being the best for our company was always strong’.

Other things that kept Nat believing in pushing forward: ‘Changing a large complex organisation isn’t easy and is never a lone mission. I had an amazing team of people to work with and as we experimented with how we adapt ways of working in the company, the momentum grew and grew. That gave me hope that more people believed and I was in fact on the right path. And the other thing was being able to talk quite openly about what was going well and equally what wasn’t going so well, being open to talk about the learnings was really important along the way. I think I learnt so much more from what didn’t work well than from what did. In a strange way, that builds belief. Personally, I didn’t do the things you should do. I should have been focused on looking after myself a little more so didn’t do meditation, I didn’t exercise, I also didn’t sleep much or take care of myself. I don’t recommend that! I am just saying I personally didn’t do any of that and I really should have.’

As you can imagine, Nat learnt a lot while being so far out of her comfort zone ‘I think with the benefit of hindsight, I got more and more comfortable as my knowledge grew. On reflection I do think I went too fast at particular times. So what I’ve learned is, it’s all well and good to have a vision in your mind as to the end goal but you have to bring people along with you at the same pace. Everyone working in this new way is in some respect outside of their comfort zone, its all new! So checking in with people is really important to make sure they feel prepared to adapt to the changes. That’s the resistance you get as the answers aren’t always clear so it does make people more anxious than in perhaps more standard transformations.’

I asked Nat about the other benefits of stepping out of her comfort zone ‘whenever anyone asks me what it was like doing this role my answer is always the same – , this has been the best and hardest period in my career. It’s the best now because I can see how special it was and how much people have grown from the experience. I know how much I have been able to grow from this  and I have learnt so much about organisations, supporting people through change, but also about myself. I have to unlearn a lot of things to do this role and I think I am better for it. I would never have known these things if I didn’t go and do something that made me feel unsure of myself. Because in that experience you see the best and the worst of yourself. And it prepares you for whatever’s coming next.’ In Nat’s case next is another big step that will take her to London!

Nat shared with me a specific learning – this is where she talked again about belief. ‘one of the things I did quite early on was running the enterprise leadership meeting with circa 200 of our leaders across the company. And I was trying to teach them some agile tools in a day basically, and I was doing it a very disruptive way solving real company impediments. This was the first moment of stepping out of my comfort zone, I’d been in the job six weeks when I took this task on. I was always determined to be bold. And I was about to get on stage for the first time and the pressure was massive and I remember I was nervous about the event being successful and having the right impact. As I was about to get on stage, I had this moment where I thought ‘How do I be confident?’ And I said to my co-facilitator on the day Dominic Price from Atlassian, ‘How do you have so much confidence when you’re speaking like that?’ And he said, ‘I don’t have confidence it’s belief.’ And it was the first moment where confidence was something different for me. I’d always thought that being confident was the right mindset but actually that was perhaps more about pretending…. Belief however allows you to be vulnerable, more open and connect in a very different way with what you are doing. I know that sounds corny for some people, but during this transformation, everything that tested me has actually given me more overall belief. Because I had belief in what I was doing, I knew what my thresholds were, what my limits were and what I was able to do. I was able to ask for help more openly and I would never have asked for help before because I wanted people to think I was in control and had total confidence. But belief is something deeper and subsequently that created more belief in others that they could trust me and follow me.’

Nat had one last piece of advice: ‘the reason I step outside of your comfort zone is because I am curious. I think life is a massive adventure, made up of a series of adventures. And unless you say yes to things, you will always be stuck in ‘no’ and wondering why things aren’t changing or moving for you. And when I get stuck in the ‘no’ I have no one to blame but myself. And it’s not always the best place to be. And when I am feeling frustrated or disappointed, nine times out of ten I can look back at decisions I’ve made and see that it’s because of a decision I made or didn’t make that has kept me there. And it’s really hard sometimes to say yes, because it’s going to push you. But every time I’ve done that I have looked back and I’ve surprised myself with what I’ve been able to do. And it’s given me so much more in life to keep moving forward to the next adventure. So I guess the other thing I’d say is when you’re when you’re faced with a decision and you’re thinking about it and ‘no’ is the safe answer…. maybe be curious and see what would happen if you actually said yes.’

Thanks Nat!

BIO

Natalie has been in variety of Human Resources roles for the past 21 years across multiple industries including professional services, financial services and telecommunications.

Natalie joined Telstra in 2013 and has led HR teams across multiple parts of the HR  organisation including leading National and International business HR teams.

In January of 2018 Natalie was selected to lead part of Telstra’s transformation to fundamentally change the ways of working across the company with a goal to create a simplified organisation that was enabled to deliver higher quality products and services for customers. The ways of working transformation included leading the agile at scale transformation at Telstra.

Imposter Syndrome

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Photo by Noah Buscher on Unsplash
Words by Fiona Whitehead based on an interview with Mel

Mel shared with me her story about taking on a new and challenging role. 

She mentioned ‘Imposter Syndrome’ which is something a lot of people feel. I heard just this week about wearing an invisible cloak of confidence to get through this phase. An alternative to ‘fake it until you make it’. It is interesting to know just how common this feeling is. 

But back to Mel! 

Mel took on the role of “Launching and leading the WoW Ambassadors globally across Telstra” which “might have been a little out of my comfort zone at first, as it is such a large group and I wondered how I could lead such a large and diverse group while balancing their different needs.”  

I asked Mel why she took on a role that was out of her comfort zone: “Because I believe the WoW Ambassadors are critical to the success of how we embed our ways of working transformation at the grass roots level. I also love engaging people, inspiring them and helping them translate complex messages to enable change.”  

Mel also shared that she is a fellow adrenaline junkie “I’m all about the adrenalin rush of doing something new and testing yourself to see what you’re made of.” 

The interesting thing about doing things that are out of your comfort zone is how often you succeed and even decide to stretch yourself further! Mel has shared that “We now have a significant WoW Ambassador group across every Function and across the globe in Telstra, and at the time of submitting this blog I have plans to grow this network.” 

Part of that process is your changing feelings as you go through the process, these align to Nolle’s Valley of Despair. “Initially I was full of the imposter syndrome, then I was simply excited by seeing the results and growing the network. Now I am just so unbelievably invested, passionate and proud of this wonderful change network.” 

And you may have guessed Mel’s answer to ‘would you step out of your comfort zone again?’ by her responses so far, but just to confirm “Yep, for sure. You only live once and every time you extend yourself and live with the fear of the unknown, you build new skills, experiences, networks and your confidence grows exponentially.” 

And Mel’s last words? 

“In the words of a clever copywriter: ‘Just do it’” 

About Mel: 

WoW Engagement Manager, Transformation & People  
(also a WoW Ambassador)  

I help people unlock their stories and make authentic connections with big ideas. A skilled and highly experienced Communications Strategist, I have worked within many industries and organisations, developing and managing long-term communications and marketing programs as well as providing communications consultancy for mission critical projects for the past twenty years. In each case, my roles have focussed on developing clear channels of communication through periods of transition and transformation.